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	<title>Comments on: How social gaming offers create value for everyone (not just Facebook, Zynga, and Offerpal)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/11/01/how-social-gaming-offers-create-value-for-everyone-not-just-facebook-and-zynga/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/11/01/how-social-gaming-offers-create-value-for-everyone-not-just-facebook-and-zynga/</link>
	<description>Essays on viral marketing, freemium, and social gaming</description>
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		<title>By: Andrew Chen</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/11/01/how-social-gaming-offers-create-value-for-everyone-not-just-facebook-and-zynga/comment-page-1/#comment-2323</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Chen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:47:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1326#comment-2323</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think any of the recent actions Facebook has been taking will pose an existential threat to the offer providers in the short-term... it&#039;s the medium-term where continued degradation of the UX will cause FB to take big, unilateral steps...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#39;t think any of the recent actions Facebook has been taking will pose an existential threat to the offer providers in the short-term&#8230; it&#39;s the medium-term where continued degradation of the UX will cause FB to take big, unilateral steps&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Matt McAllister</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/11/01/how-social-gaming-offers-create-value-for-everyone-not-just-facebook-and-zynga/comment-page-1/#comment-2322</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt McAllister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1326#comment-2322</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d bet closer to 6 days than 6 months. Actually, most of the questionable offers have already been removed. Facebook is cracking down hard, and has been since last week. We&#039;ve decided to err on the side of caution and remove anything in the gray area undefined by their policies. I think we and the other offer providers will take a revenue hit, but that in the long run it&#039;s good for the whole &quot;ecosystem.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;d bet closer to 6 days than 6 months. Actually, most of the questionable offers have already been removed. Facebook is cracking down hard, and has been since last week. We&#39;ve decided to err on the side of caution and remove anything in the gray area undefined by their policies. I think we and the other offer providers will take a revenue hit, but that in the long run it&#39;s good for the whole &#8220;ecosystem.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Chen</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/11/01/how-social-gaming-offers-create-value-for-everyone-not-just-facebook-and-zynga/comment-page-1/#comment-2313</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Chen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1326#comment-2313</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s right, current offers don&#039;t make sense at all. Right now the industry is just opportunistic, and not thinking about the long term.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#39;s right, current offers don&#39;t make sense at all. Right now the industry is just opportunistic, and not thinking about the long term.</p>
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		<title>By: rashmis</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/11/01/how-social-gaming-offers-create-value-for-everyone-not-just-facebook-and-zynga/comment-page-1/#comment-2312</link>
		<dc:creator>rashmis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1326#comment-2312</guid>
		<description>Andrew, Most of these offers don&#039;t fulfill the &quot;Makes sense&quot; criteria in the context they are shown. For Amazon type of product bundling where end user gets real value, the whole industry would need to be much more algorithmically oriented (and only show relevant offers).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It can be done, but I don&#039;t see any of the current players in the industry as doing it. There is too much low hanging fruit with the spray and pray approach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew, Most of these offers don&#39;t fulfill the &#8220;Makes sense&#8221; criteria in the context they are shown. For Amazon type of product bundling where end user gets real value, the whole industry would need to be much more algorithmically oriented (and only show relevant offers).</p>
<p>It can be done, but I don&#39;t see any of the current players in the industry as doing it. There is too much low hanging fruit with the spray and pray approach.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Chen</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/11/01/how-social-gaming-offers-create-value-for-everyone-not-just-facebook-and-zynga/comment-page-1/#comment-2311</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Chen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1326#comment-2311</guid>
		<description>Matt, I think that if you guys don&#039;t get squeeky clean soon, Facebook will regulate you guys out of existence because of the public uproar it&#039;s causing... You guys need to get a LOT better on the user experience sooner rather than later.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;They&#039;ll do to leadgen what they are doing with bad actor apps and advertisers.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I bet you guys have 6 months to figure it out, max.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, I think that if you guys don&#39;t get squeeky clean soon, Facebook will regulate you guys out of existence because of the public uproar it&#39;s causing&#8230; You guys need to get a LOT better on the user experience sooner rather than later.</p>
<p>They&#39;ll do to leadgen what they are doing with bad actor apps and advertisers.</p>
<p>I bet you guys have 6 months to figure it out, max.</p>
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		<title>By: Alexander Ainslie (@AAinslie)</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/11/01/how-social-gaming-offers-create-value-for-everyone-not-just-facebook-and-zynga/comment-page-1/#comment-2284</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander Ainslie (@AAinslie)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 23:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1326#comment-2284</guid>
		<description>MacHeist comes to mind as a good example of add-value bundling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MacHeist comes to mind as a good example of add-value bundling.</p>
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		<title>By: Alexander Ainslie (@AAinslie)</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/11/01/how-social-gaming-offers-create-value-for-everyone-not-just-facebook-and-zynga/comment-page-1/#comment-2282</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander Ainslie (@AAinslie)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 22:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1326#comment-2282</guid>
		<description>MacHeist comes to mind as a good example of add-value bundling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MacHeist comes to mind as a good example of add-value bundling.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt McAllister</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/11/01/how-social-gaming-offers-create-value-for-everyone-not-just-facebook-and-zynga/comment-page-1/#comment-2281</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt McAllister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 21:16:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1326#comment-2281</guid>
		<description>An awesome read, thanks Andrew. I have to agree with everything you said -- even, I&#039;ll admit, the part about the offers business standing room for improvement, although I think it is far from broken. It&#039;s actually very strong. But for it to remain strong it will have to be even more vigilant than ever in fighting fraud and keeping spammy, scammy offers at bay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An awesome read, thanks Andrew. I have to agree with everything you said &#8212; even, I&#39;ll admit, the part about the offers business standing room for improvement, although I think it is far from broken. It&#39;s actually very strong. But for it to remain strong it will have to be even more vigilant than ever in fighting fraud and keeping spammy, scammy offers at bay.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Chen</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/11/01/how-social-gaming-offers-create-value-for-everyone-not-just-facebook-and-zynga/comment-page-1/#comment-2280</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Chen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 18:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1326#comment-2280</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comment James. Just read your section of Adam&#039;s book &quot;Viral Loop&quot; btw, fun stuff.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think you are probably logged in via Facebook for Disqus and there&#039;s something weird there. Might want to try the Twitter OAuth instead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment James. Just read your section of Adam&#39;s book &#8220;Viral Loop&#8221; btw, fun stuff.</p>
<p>I think you are probably logged in via Facebook for Disqus and there&#39;s something weird there. Might want to try the Twitter OAuth instead.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Chen</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/11/01/how-social-gaming-offers-create-value-for-everyone-not-just-facebook-and-zynga/comment-page-1/#comment-2279</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Chen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 18:06:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1326#comment-2279</guid>
		<description>Yep, I totally agree with you on the user experience issues. My point is just that I think it&#039;s possible for the offers industry to actually provide end user value, though clearly they are far from that, and I want to give the rationale for how something like that might happen.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thanks for the comment :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, I totally agree with you on the user experience issues. My point is just that I think it&#39;s possible for the offers industry to actually provide end user value, though clearly they are far from that, and I want to give the rationale for how something like that might happen.</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment <img src='http://andrewchenblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Darren Erik Vengroff</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/11/01/how-social-gaming-offers-create-value-for-everyone-not-just-facebook-and-zynga/comment-page-1/#comment-2278</link>
		<dc:creator>Darren Erik Vengroff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 17:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1326#comment-2278</guid>
		<description>Andrew,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I appreciate many of your points about bundling, but I don&#039;t think that bundling itself is at the heart of the debate Arrington has ignited. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In a bundle, or any other kind of offer made on or off line you can legitimately represent the terms and conditions of your offer, or you can be sleazy and deceptive. Asking a customer, &quot;would you like fries with that?&quot; and selling them fries if they respond positively is very different than asking someone if they want to receive an SMS notification and not disclosing that you are signing them up for a $10/month subscription service.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As I read him, Arrington is upset about deceptive business practices, not bundling as a whole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew,</p>
<p>I appreciate many of your points about bundling, but I don&#39;t think that bundling itself is at the heart of the debate Arrington has ignited. </p>
<p>In a bundle, or any other kind of offer made on or off line you can legitimately represent the terms and conditions of your offer, or you can be sleazy and deceptive. Asking a customer, &#8220;would you like fries with that?&#8221; and selling them fries if they respond positively is very different than asking someone if they want to receive an SMS notification and not disclosing that you are signing them up for a $10/month subscription service.</p>
<p>As I read him, Arrington is upset about deceptive business practices, not bundling as a whole.</p>
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		<title>By: facebook-1204604</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/11/01/how-social-gaming-offers-create-value-for-everyone-not-just-facebook-and-zynga/comment-page-1/#comment-2277</link>
		<dc:creator>facebook-1204604</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 17:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1326#comment-2277</guid>
		<description>so weird, it said i was logged in as james hong again, but there i am, posted anonymously again :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so weird, it said i was logged in as james hong again, but there i am, posted anonymously again <img src='http://andrewchenblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: facebook-1204604</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/11/01/how-social-gaming-offers-create-value-for-everyone-not-just-facebook-and-zynga/comment-page-1/#comment-2276</link>
		<dc:creator>facebook-1204604</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 17:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1326#comment-2276</guid>
		<description>Good post. bundling is effective and can be beneficial to user when done well.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;i think arrington&#039;s point was not that bundling or offers in general were bad, but rather that the current networks seem overrun by misleading offers that result in users getting billed for things they had no idea were headed their way. and the problem is that if scams monetize better than legit offers, they outprice (or at least make things much more expensive for) those advertisers. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;the analogy might be charles schwab selling shares of bernie madoff&#039;s fund (if they knew it was a ponzi scheme at the time)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post. bundling is effective and can be beneficial to user when done well.</p>
<p>i think arrington&#39;s point was not that bundling or offers in general were bad, but rather that the current networks seem overrun by misleading offers that result in users getting billed for things they had no idea were headed their way. and the problem is that if scams monetize better than legit offers, they outprice (or at least make things much more expensive for) those advertisers. </p>
<p>the analogy might be charles schwab selling shares of bernie madoff&#39;s fund (if they knew it was a ponzi scheme at the time)</p>
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		<title>By: mytweetmark</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/11/01/how-social-gaming-offers-create-value-for-everyone-not-just-facebook-and-zynga/comment-page-1/#comment-2275</link>
		<dc:creator>mytweetmark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 17:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1326#comment-2275</guid>
		<description>Awesome read!  Thank you.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Cheers,&lt;br&gt;@mytweetmark</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awesome read!  Thank you.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />@mytweetmark</p>
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