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	<title>Comments on: Creating value versus optimizing revenue</title>
	<atom:link href="http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/06/10/creating-value-versus-optimizing-revenue/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/06/10/creating-value-versus-optimizing-revenue/</link>
	<description>Essays on viral marketing, freemium, and social gaming</description>
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		<title>By: Gadget_Blog</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/06/10/creating-value-versus-optimizing-revenue/comment-page-1/#comment-2007</link>
		<dc:creator>Gadget_Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:02:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1036#comment-2007</guid>
		<description>Great post, really help me alot. Thanks.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Cheers,&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://gadgettechblog.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;gadgettechblog.com&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, really help me alot. Thanks.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br /><a href="http://gadgettechblog.com" rel="nofollow">gadgettechblog.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Nick O&#39;Neill</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/06/10/creating-value-versus-optimizing-revenue/comment-page-1/#comment-1891</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick O&#39;Neill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 05:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1036#comment-1891</guid>
		<description>Andrew,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You&#039;ve hit the nail on the head.  I&#039;ve been focusing on this a lot more recently as well.  There are too many people that are focused on getting the viral factor &gt; 1.0 but they aren&#039;t focused on driving a targeted group of users to a substantial value proposition. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Your blog is a perfect example of this.  While you may not have as much traffic as Techcrunch, you have an extremely targeted niche that listens to what you have to say.  You provide an immense amount of value and in turn, you can generate potentially more clients (if desired) and more valuable connections.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It&#039;s time to focus on providing true value, not the quick buck.  Targeted traffic &gt; untargeted viral traffic.  While the viral traffic can help I a much greater fan of targeted traffic and you&#039;re a great example of it.  It&#039;s great to hear this coming from someone that it deep in the metrics though ;)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Best,&lt;br&gt;Nick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew,</p>
<p>You&#39;ve hit the nail on the head.  I&#39;ve been focusing on this a lot more recently as well.  There are too many people that are focused on getting the viral factor &gt; 1.0 but they aren&#39;t focused on driving a targeted group of users to a substantial value proposition. </p>
<p>Your blog is a perfect example of this.  While you may not have as much traffic as Techcrunch, you have an extremely targeted niche that listens to what you have to say.  You provide an immense amount of value and in turn, you can generate potentially more clients (if desired) and more valuable connections.  </p>
<p>It&#39;s time to focus on providing true value, not the quick buck.  Targeted traffic &gt; untargeted viral traffic.  While the viral traffic can help I a much greater fan of targeted traffic and you&#39;re a great example of it.  It&#39;s great to hear this coming from someone that it deep in the metrics though <img src='http://andrewchenblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Best,<br />Nick</p>
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		<title>By: petenixey</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/06/10/creating-value-versus-optimizing-revenue/comment-page-1/#comment-1869</link>
		<dc:creator>petenixey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1036#comment-1869</guid>
		<description>Good article Andrew, I&#039;m very pleased you wrote it. I&#039;ve thought about this a lot and ran through it again and again when we were figuring out revenue strategies for Clickpass - where is the &quot;value-add&quot; in any given strategy.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I have always felt there are some nice analogies to how energy is conserved in physics. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Physical laws&lt;br&gt;1. Energy is a conserved entity. It can&#039;t be created or destroyed but it can be converted from one form to another&lt;br&gt;2. No engine is entirely efficient. Energy conversion is never 100% efficient&lt;br&gt;3. You can&#039;t build a perpetual motion machine (from 1 and 2). Energy put into a system is always greater than the useful energy that can be removed.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Mapping those laws to value creation / optimisation&lt;br&gt;1. Value is a conserved property. You can transfer value from someone&#039;s normal activities to your application by having them interact with it but the application has no inherent value. The *act of people communicating* adds value to Twitter, saving people time on accounting adds value to Quickbooks. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;2. No application is entirely efficient. An application can convert some of the value it creates for a user into cash but not all of it. The application must generate more value for the user than it costs them to use it (either in direct fees or intrusive advertising). You cannot optimise beyond the value of the *utility* your application offers.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;3. If you remove more value from the system than you add (spam users, add popups, charge them for things they weren&#039;t expecting), your business will not survive. You cannot create perpetual motion as a business. If you attempt to do so you will fail either because of lack of custom or because the authorities shut you down (equally true for Facebook apps).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I feel that thinking in these simple terms can really help a business make sure that it focusses on the user. You have to be creating more value for them than you expect or hope to extract from the business in cash.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article Andrew, I&#39;m very pleased you wrote it. I&#39;ve thought about this a lot and ran through it again and again when we were figuring out revenue strategies for Clickpass &#8211; where is the &#8220;value-add&#8221; in any given strategy.</p>
<p>I have always felt there are some nice analogies to how energy is conserved in physics. </p>
<p>Physical laws<br />1. Energy is a conserved entity. It can&#39;t be created or destroyed but it can be converted from one form to another<br />2. No engine is entirely efficient. Energy conversion is never 100% efficient<br />3. You can&#39;t build a perpetual motion machine (from 1 and 2). Energy put into a system is always greater than the useful energy that can be removed.</p>
<p>Mapping those laws to value creation / optimisation<br />1. Value is a conserved property. You can transfer value from someone&#39;s normal activities to your application by having them interact with it but the application has no inherent value. The *act of people communicating* adds value to Twitter, saving people time on accounting adds value to Quickbooks. </p>
<p>2. No application is entirely efficient. An application can convert some of the value it creates for a user into cash but not all of it. The application must generate more value for the user than it costs them to use it (either in direct fees or intrusive advertising). You cannot optimise beyond the value of the *utility* your application offers.</p>
<p>3. If you remove more value from the system than you add (spam users, add popups, charge them for things they weren&#39;t expecting), your business will not survive. You cannot create perpetual motion as a business. If you attempt to do so you will fail either because of lack of custom or because the authorities shut you down (equally true for Facebook apps).</p>
<p>I feel that thinking in these simple terms can really help a business make sure that it focusses on the user. You have to be creating more value for them than you expect or hope to extract from the business in cash.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Chen</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/06/10/creating-value-versus-optimizing-revenue/comment-page-1/#comment-1854</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Chen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 05:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1036#comment-1854</guid>
		<description>Absolutely true - and that incentive structure makes it very hard for people who prioritize functionality over virality. I think the Apple App Store has done a good job emphasizing downloads and ratings over viral invites - that&#039;s probably the single best way to encourage quality of experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely true &#8211; and that incentive structure makes it very hard for people who prioritize functionality over virality. I think the Apple App Store has done a good job emphasizing downloads and ratings over viral invites &#8211; that&#39;s probably the single best way to encourage quality of experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Chen</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/06/10/creating-value-versus-optimizing-revenue/comment-page-1/#comment-1852</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Chen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 02:22:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1036#comment-1852</guid>
		<description>&quot;All models are wrong, but some are useful&quot; --George Box&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The point is, you have to create models (whether those are quantitative or qualitative) about consumer behavior, and build your business towards these goals. Yes they are not accurate. Yes they are brittle. But combine these models with entrepreneurial judgement, and you might get something awesome on the other end ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;All models are wrong, but some are useful&#8221; &#8211;George Box</p>
<p>The point is, you have to create models (whether those are quantitative or qualitative) about consumer behavior, and build your business towards these goals. Yes they are not accurate. Yes they are brittle. But combine these models with entrepreneurial judgement, and you might get something awesome on the other end <img src='http://andrewchenblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Chen</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/06/10/creating-value-versus-optimizing-revenue/comment-page-1/#comment-1851</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Chen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 02:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1036#comment-1851</guid>
		<description>To those entrepreneurs I say: Sunk cost fallacy ;-)&lt;br&gt;There&#039;s always time to right the ship...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To those entrepreneurs I say: Sunk cost fallacy <img src='http://andrewchenblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> <br />There&#39;s always time to right the ship&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Chen</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/06/10/creating-value-versus-optimizing-revenue/comment-page-1/#comment-1850</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Chen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 02:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1036#comment-1850</guid>
		<description>it&#039;s really too bad that building huge consumer destinations isn&#039;t more deterministic ;-) As much time as I&#039;ve spent trying to make the process more systematic, there&#039;s still a knack for human culture that has to be mastered to get to a huge outcome!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thanks for the comment, hope all is well in NY ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it&#39;s really too bad that building huge consumer destinations isn&#39;t more deterministic <img src='http://andrewchenblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  As much time as I&#39;ve spent trying to make the process more systematic, there&#39;s still a knack for human culture that has to be mastered to get to a huge outcome!</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment, hope all is well in NY <img src='http://andrewchenblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Eduardo Rocha</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/06/10/creating-value-versus-optimizing-revenue/comment-page-1/#comment-1849</link>
		<dc:creator>Eduardo Rocha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 01:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1036#comment-1849</guid>
		<description>The issue is that the current rankings from social networks is hugely favorable to the ones who create small value and maximizes the output (traffic). I know a looot of good applications which cannot be found just because they have no traction yet, and are way behind those first-comers in rankings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue is that the current rankings from social networks is hugely favorable to the ones who create small value and maximizes the output (traffic). I know a looot of good applications which cannot be found just because they have no traction yet, and are way behind those first-comers in rankings.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Tacy</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/06/10/creating-value-versus-optimizing-revenue/comment-page-1/#comment-1841</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Tacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 12:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1036#comment-1841</guid>
		<description>Desire and emotion are incredibly hard (if not impossible) to accurately model and manage on a quant basis. Fundamentally, people are emotional and irrational.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Building a product that resonates with people - that creates connection with a human being on an emotional level - requires an understanding of them on this level. And this is what you have to do if you want to create something amazing rather than simply useful.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Just as trying to create a product that has huge value using purely qualitative methods, goals and metrics is likely doomed to fail (might as well read entrails - would have the same odds of being accurate), doing the same using purely quantitative methods is (as you point out and for all your reasons) likely to fail.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We need to balance quantitative and qualitative methods and perhaps most importantly - we need to apply each type of method to the right decision, issues and points in the process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Desire and emotion are incredibly hard (if not impossible) to accurately model and manage on a quant basis. Fundamentally, people are emotional and irrational.</p>
<p>Building a product that resonates with people &#8211; that creates connection with a human being on an emotional level &#8211; requires an understanding of them on this level. And this is what you have to do if you want to create something amazing rather than simply useful.</p>
<p>Just as trying to create a product that has huge value using purely qualitative methods, goals and metrics is likely doomed to fail (might as well read entrails &#8211; would have the same odds of being accurate), doing the same using purely quantitative methods is (as you point out and for all your reasons) likely to fail.</p>
<p>We need to balance quantitative and qualitative methods and perhaps most importantly &#8211; we need to apply each type of method to the right decision, issues and points in the process.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/06/10/creating-value-versus-optimizing-revenue/comment-page-1/#comment-1839</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 00:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1036#comment-1839</guid>
		<description>Excellent post Andrew.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I particularly agree with the insight that &quot;Distribution-led approaches can lead to local maxima on value creation.&quot;  It&#039;s really hard to walk away from any, even modest, success.  It&#039;s also the same reason so many successful people in big companies accept moderate success rather than the risk of starting all over as an entrepreneur ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post Andrew.  </p>
<p>I particularly agree with the insight that &#8220;Distribution-led approaches can lead to local maxima on value creation.&#8221;  It&#39;s really hard to walk away from any, even modest, success.  It&#39;s also the same reason so many successful people in big companies accept moderate success rather than the risk of starting all over as an entrepreneur <img src='http://andrewchenblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: christianbusch</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/06/10/creating-value-versus-optimizing-revenue/comment-page-1/#comment-1834</link>
		<dc:creator>christianbusch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1036#comment-1834</guid>
		<description>Hey Andrew, well written as usual. The viral/quant play works really well for business models that are based on quick transactions and high volume (e.g. lead-gen funnels monetized through Offerpal etc.) - for &quot;real&quot; long-term businesses, you&#039;re absolutely right to point out the importance of focusing on true value creation/ real problem solving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Andrew, well written as usual. The viral/quant play works really well for business models that are based on quick transactions and high volume (e.g. lead-gen funnels monetized through Offerpal etc.) &#8211; for &#8220;real&#8221; long-term businesses, you&#39;re absolutely right to point out the importance of focusing on true value creation/ real problem solving.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Neumann</title>
		<link>http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/06/10/creating-value-versus-optimizing-revenue/comment-page-1/#comment-1822</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Neumann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewchenblog.com/?p=1036#comment-1822</guid>
		<description>Andrew - glad to see that someone is still out there fighting for getting off the viral &quot;crack&quot;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew &#8211; glad to see that someone is still out there fighting for getting off the viral &#8220;crack&#8221;!</p>
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